Legislature(1997 - 1998)
02/12/1998 11:10 AM House O&G
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 274 - OIL & GAS CONSERVATION COMMISSION Number 0156 CHAIRMAN HODGINS announced that the committee would hear HB 274, "An Act relating to the qualifications of the members of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission; and providing for an effective date." He stated that there is a committee substitute and asked Jeff Logan to present the committee substitute. JEFF LOGAN, Legislative Assistant to Representative Joe Green, sponsor of HB 274, informed the committee that Representative Green is in Anchorage and will be on teleconference. Number 0220 CHAIRMAN HODGINS stated that there is a committee substitute to HB 274. Number 0226 REPRESENTATIVE NORMAN ROKEBERG made a motion to adopt CSHB 274( ) as a working draft. He asked what version the committee is addressing. CHAIRMAN HODGINS responded that the committee is addressing CSHB 274( ), 0-LS0998\L, Glover, 2/11/98, as amended. REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN asked if Mr. Logan could explain the changes to the bill. Number 0336 MR. LOGAN stated that the first change is on page 1, line 7, "Before making an appointment, the Governor may solicit the recommendations of professional or industry representatives for appointment of a commissioner." He explained that this language is a result of comments to the sponsor by professional and industry groups, who would appreciate the opportunity to forward names to the Governor. He stated that these groups believe that they know who the most qualified members of their industry are and they would like to be able to forward the names to the Governor. Number 0420 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, (AOGCC), are the policemen of the pipeline. He stated that the bill is then proposing that the oil companies will be able to choose who will be their policemen. He asked if that was correct. Number 0448 MR. LOGAN replied that it was not exactly correct. He referred to Line 8, and noted the word "may". The Governor may solicit the recommendations of the industry. The industry representatives were hoping to have a formalized process toward the Governor in regards to positions on the commission. He noted that there have been previous members on the commission from the industry and it has not been a problem in the past. Number 0507 REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN, testified via teleconference from Anchorage that the reason for this language is because the Governor's past two appointments have been unqualified for the position. The reason being that he could not find professionals in the industry that would qualify. He stated that this does not preclude him from finding other qualified representatives. Number 0575 REPRESENTATIVE TOM BRICE stated that he wanted to make sure he was clear on this. The section is 31.05.005(a) and asked if it is referencing the petroleum engineer's and the geologist's seat or if it is referring to all members of the commission. Number 0606 MR. LOGAN replied that subsection does not apply to membership of the commission. Number 0642 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated he just wanted to be clear; the subsection pertains to input on the engineer's and the geologist's seats and Section 1 is applicable to all the seats. Number 0680 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Representative Brice to refer to line 9 and the word "professional". He stated that the third member does not have to be a professional in anything. Number 0698 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked that the addition in Section 1 applies to all three seats on the commission. Number 0725 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN reiterated that the third member need not be qualified in either the geological or engineering area of expertise, therefore there is no need for a professional review of the third seat. Number 0775 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN stated that the way the additional information is written in Section 1, it pertains to all three positions and asked whether the language could be tightened to apply only to the petroleum engineer. Number 0810 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN responded that he the word "may" is being used and it is the Governor's discretion if he is going to seek any recommendation. The intent is to help the Governor find the required professionals to fill the two professional seats. Number 0885 REPRESENTATIVE CON BUNDE stated that there seems to be some concern that the oil industry would be forwarding recommendations. He asked if it was correct that there is nothing in the existing law that would prevent the Governor from asking the AOGCC for recommendations. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied that is correct. Number 0897 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated that it seems like it is intent language, carrying all the weight of a butterfly. Number 0934 MR. LOGAN stated that additional changes are found on page 2, subsection (B), line 6, deleting the requirement that the person selected for the petroleum engineering seat have a degree in petroleum engineering. The word "petroleum" has been deleted. This has also been done on line 10 and line 11. He stated that otherwise it limited the pool of candidates to a level of impracticality. MR. LOGAN stated that on page 2, line 6 the insertion of the word "subsurface" requires the person to have at least 10 years of professional subsurface experience. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG referred to page 1, line 13, "one member shall be a petroleum engineer" and stated that the definition of a petroleum engineer on page 2, is one who meets the requirements for program accreditation by the Engineering Accreditation Commission. Number 1090 MR. LOGAN stated that it is an omission on his part and the word "petroleum" on page 1, line 13 should have been deleted. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Representative Green if he wished to leave the word "licensed professional" in as well. Number 1134 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN responded, "There is an (A) and a (B) and there is an 'or' in there. And that 'or' is very important because that person can be a registered petroleum engineer or would have these other qualifications which would insure that he has the knowledge that is required for the position." Number 1167 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated therefore, on page 1, line 13 there would be no deletion of word "petroleum". Number 1199 MR. LOGAN stated that on page 2, line 14, there is the requirement to complete "course work specific to petroleum engineering" that deals with the subjects listed in line 16 through line 18. Number 1239 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated that the term "course work" is not very well defined. He asked if it meant course work in every one of the subjects listed. Number 1260 MR. LOGAN replied that it could be a course, or courses; as long as the course work illustrated "application of engineering principles to the problems encountered and methods used in the petroleum industry". He explained that could be obtained in a variety of different courses. Number 1300 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE asked at what level is the course work. Is it a week-end seminar, a community college course, et cetera. Number 1327 MR. LOGAN replied that he believed it is covered on line 12 through line 13. The course work has to be at a university that is accredited by the Engineering Accreditation Commission of Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology, (ABET) which is the most basic and broadest accreditation for engineering programs in the United States. He added that this is the organization in which the University of Alaska of Fairbanks, engineering programs are accredited by. Number 1428 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated that he understood that a member would have to obtain an undergraduate or graduate degree in engineering that meets the requirements as listed in line 12 through line 13. He asked if it would be more to the point say that "includes course work". Number 1428 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if on line 13, "by competing" was deleted and "that includes" was inserted, would be more to Representative Bunde's liking. Number 1490 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated that would be fine, but maybe he is the only one who sees it as a problem. Number 1519 REPRESENTATIVE BRICE stated that there are two requirements in subsection (B), the member has to earn a degree from a university and have 10 years of professional subsurface experience. In defining the degree, it has to come from an ABET school and during that course work at the school one must have taken courses to include drilling, production, reservoir engineering, fluid flow through subsurface formations and hydrocarbon transportation. He stated that on page 2, line 8 through line 18 defines the type of educational experience that a person has gone through to get that degree from a university. He stated that it does address the question that a person could not just take a few week-end seminars and meet the requirements. He stated that is at least the way he reads it. Number 1600 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE offered that on page 2, line 13, "including and completing course work specific to petroleum engineering". Number 1610 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated that would be fine. Number 1613 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE made a motion to amend CSHB 274( ), page 2, line 13 to delete the word "by" and insert the word "including", so that line 13 would read "Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology including and completing". Number 1671 CHAIRMAN HODGINS asked if everybody understood the amendment. Number 1681 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if this language would then require a degree in petroleum engineering. Number 1689 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied that it would not. He stated that it would avoid the situation of someone just having 10 years experience in drilling, because it states there would have to be some course work in the other disciplines. There is a broader understanding of what members on the AOGCC need to be aware of. Number 1727 CHAIRMAN HODGINS asked if there were any objections to the amendment. Hearing none, Amendment 1 passed. Number 1734 MR. LOGAN stated that the final change is on page 2, line 23, it is the insertion of the requirement for a minimum of 10 years professional experience in the field of petroleum geology in order to serve on the commission. Number 1706 MIKE DUNN stated that he is representing himself and he has worked for a major oil company as a petroleum engineer for 15 years. He stated that he has worked in drilling, production, reservoir and exploration. He stated that the underlying intent of the bill is to raise the standards that the state has to manage the resources. He pointed to the city of Long Beach and the Texas Railroad Commission as a model, as they are recruit side by side with the major oil companies on campuses, hiring the best and the brightest engineers. Number 1868 REPRESENTATIVE OGAN asked if he thought the bill raised the standards for petroleum engineer. MR. DUNN replied that a minimum standard is a good idea and this bill is a direction that the state needs to take. Number 1925 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE stated that the zero fiscal notes accompanying the bill contained, in the justification section, lobbying against the bill. He stated that a fiscal note should just contain fiscal analysis and if someone wants to lobby about the bill they should come to the meeting and discuss their views. He stated that this backdoor approach to lobbying is unacceptable. CHAIRMAN HODGINS stated that he whole-heartily agreed. Number 1966 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked Representative Green if the description of the course work that now will have to be included and completed, would be the curriculum necessary to obtain a degree in petroleum engineering. Number 1902 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN replied that they are just individual areas and not necessarily course work and in any one of those areas there are several courses that a petroleum engineer takes. He explained that they are not requiring the completion of all of them, just that they be introduced to them and complete a course in that field. Number 2026 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG stated he wanted to verify for the record that under the stated engineering statute there is not a requirement to indicate what a petroleum engineer is. He asked if there is a regulatory definition of a petroleum engineer. Number 2060 MR. LOGAN replied that there is a petroleum engineering license and there is regulatory language in Alaska Administrative Code that addresses that. Number 2108 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked that the rationale for removing the petroleum engineer language is to widen the pool of availability. Number 2117 MR. LOGAN replied that is correct. REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG asked if it would be okay to hire an out of state person for the job. MR. LOGAN replied that it was discussed at the last hearing in a letter from the Department of Law, which stated that in order for a person to serve on a board or commission in the state they must be registered to vote at least 30 days prior to last general election. Number 2137 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN stated that in the Alaska Administrative Code, 12 AAC 36.990 "item 14" described petroleum engineer. Number 2151 REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE made a motion to move CSHB 274(O&G), 0- LS0998\L, Glover, 2/11/98, as amended without the attached fiscal note. Number 2172 CHAIRMAN HODGINS asked if there was an objection. Hearing none, CSHB 274 (O&G),0-LS0998\L, Glover, 2/11/98, as amended without the attached fiscal note was moved out of the House Special Committee on Oil and Gas.
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